FSU-UF Rivalry

The Beginning of a Rivalry

The FSU-UF football rivalry actually started in 1902. Back then, FSU was called Florida State College and UF was called Florida Agricultural College and was located in Lake City.

In 1902, the rivals played two games, each team winning on their home field 6-0. The first game was played in Tallahassee, the second in Lake City.

In 1903, Florida Agricultural College changed their name to the University of Florida, but they were still located in Lake City. The two schools played one game in Tallahassee which Florida State College won 12-0. After the game the first controversy between the two schools emerged when Florida charged FSC with using three professionals!

In 1904, FSC traveled to Lake City and whipped the University of Florida 23-0.

In 1905, the state legislature passed the Buckman Bill and Florida State College became Florida State College for Women. The University of Florida at Lake City moved to Gainesville and merged with the East Florida Seminary to form the new University of Florida which was all male.

For years, the University of Florida pushed the Florida Legislature to let it become coeducational and to keep FSCW all-female. This was one of the first in a series of rubs that would quickly follow in the historical rivalry between the two schools - rivalry that involved far more than football.

After World War II when the veterans came home and wanted to pursue their college education, demand quickly exceeded supply - too many veterans, not enough colleges. Interest in Florida becoming coed temporarily subsided: no room. In early September of 1946, Florida had 2,200 more applicants than it could accommodate. In an emergency context, Florida State agreed to provide instruction for some of them. It would be known as the Tallahassee Branch of the University of Florida. At a Cabinet meeting, the state's attorney general declared that this development was not to be construed as making the school coeducational. Doak Campbell, the school's president, disagreed, pointing out that, whatever the technicalities, the school had in fact become coeducational with its enrollment of men.

On May 7, 1947, even though Florida loyalists fought it, a bill was passed making Florida State University coeducational.

Florida had sought, in early 1947, full control over virtually every aspect of Florida State's athletic program. In January, President Campbell had received a letter from his Florida Counterpart, John J. Tigert. The text appears in Campbell's book A University in Transition. Excerpts follow:

Dear Dr. Campbell:

   This memorandum will confirm the agreements...concerning athletic relations between the
University of Florida and the Tallahassee Branch.
   1. The program will be operated in the name of The University of Florida, Tallahassee
Branch, and activities will be carried on in the interest of the University.
   2. The following policies were agreed upon with reference to the control and supervision
of activities:
      (a) Personnel of the coaching staff will be chosen for appointment with the approval
of the Athletic authority at the University of Florida.
      (b) The matter of fees, salaries, and budgets will be handled in the same way that
these matters are handled in other relations, i.e., the same is published in the University
catalog.
      (c) The University of Florida will furnish as quickly as possible rules, regulations
and policies which will govern the making of schedules...
      (d) Competition in the following sports only is recommended: basketball, tennis,
swimming, golf, and track.
      (e) The status of all athletics shall have that of a 'B' team of the University of
Florida, and no official University of Florida monograms will be awarded...
      (f) The program shall be operated under the same scholastic eligibility rules as the
University of Florida. This means that eligibility blanks of the Southeastern Conference
will be made out and forwarded to the Committee on Athletics at the University of Florida,
who will in turn forward them to the Commissioner of the Southeastern Conference.

                          Cordially yours,
                          John J. Tigert
                          President

However, football was a different matter. Approval had to be granted by the Board of Regents to field a team. UF partisans again tried to head off FSU football at the pass. UF graduates Tom Bryant of Lakeland and J. Henson Markham of Jacksonville opposed the proposal. N.B. Jordan of Quincy and Luther Marchon of Miami supported the proposal, so there was a 2-2 deadlock. The chairman of the board, J. Thomas Gurney, broke the tie and voted for the proposal on July 12, less than three months before the first kickoff.

Let's play some football

The university athletic committee instructed Athletic Director Howard G. Danford to start negotiations for a December 2 game and students immediately began to clamor for the Gators.

A November 4 game with Xavier University of Cincinnati, Ohio, had been tentatively scheduled but was dropped at the request of coaches and players.

It is doubtful if Xavier, which had a record of nine wins and only one loss last year and is undefeated this season, can be obtained for the December 2 contest.

Although it was not officially announced, it is reported the coaches and players objected to the November 4 game because they meet their strongest opponents, Mississippi College, Stetson and Tampa on the following three successive Saturdays.

However, Head Coach Don Veller said he and the players were "willing to play anybody on December 2." He declared that includes "Florida, Xavier, Tulane or any other team that school officials okay for a game."

Meanwhile, the University Senate, a part of the Student Government Association, named a committee to seek a post season game with the University of Florida.

The committee was instructed to seek support of the University, the Board of Control and Governor Warren for the game.

The Board of Control now has a rule prohibiting football games between the two schools. Contests in other sports, however, are permitted.

Danford joined in a student body clamor for a game this year between the two State Universities that haven't engaged in any sort of athletic contest since before the Tallahassee school started a 42 year term as a women's college.

The student body, and some off campus supporters, have complained the FSU team isn't playing teams that are up to its caliber. It has lost only two games since the beginning of the 1948 season, and has whipped both opponents badly so far this year.

The athletic committee is talking about lining up a new and stronger opponent for the Seminoles this year, probably for a game December 2 after the present schedule is completed.

Danford, chairman of the committee, said the University of Florida Gators "are number one on my own personal hit parade" for such a game.

"We are not going to write to or contact any other team until I find out if our athletic committee wishes to make a formal request of our president to open negotiations with the Board of Control on the Florida matter," he added.

The Board of Control, which supervises all State colleges, is the key to a game between the two Universities.

When FSU was converted to a coeducational institution from old Florida State College for Women three years ago, the board adopted a rule prohibiting athletic contests between the two Universities. Last year, it relaxed it to permit contests in everything but football, but none have been arranged.

So before the Gators and Seminoles can square off on the football field, the Board of Control must waive its rule. FSU Head Coach Don Veller said he and the team will be willing to play any team that is scheduled for them at the end of the current season, including the Gators.

Bob Woodruff, head coach and athletic director at the University of Florida, declined to comment on the challenge.

Frank Harris, chairman of the Board of Control, said he wouldn't express an opinion on how he might vote if the question is brought to the board.

Governor Warren broke into a budget presentation by FSU President Doak S. Campbell to inquire:

"Do you think we might look for a football game between Florida State University and the University of Florida?"

Before Dr. Campbell could answer, Dr. Miller broke in with:

"I suggest Florida State University and the University of Florida combine to play the University of Miami."

There was a burst of laughter and Dr. Campbell never answered the question.

The two State universities haven't competed in any athletics since FSU was converted from a women's college. Supporters of the unbeaten FSU football team clamored for a game with the U. of F. last season but the effort ran into a Board of Control prohibition.

The University of Miami is the biggest intra-state rival of the University of Florida. Last year, Miami beat Florida, 20-14.

FSU never has played Miami but it will this year. The Hurricanes offered FSU a place on the 1951 schedule after it became apparent the FSU-UF game couldn't be arranged.

Chairman Frank Harris of the Board of Control was present during the exchange between Governor Warren and the two university presidents. He took no part in the talk. Later, he told an inquiring reporter he hasn't "got anything to say about that now."

Scott Marshall, sports editor of FSU's Flambeau, has sent a mimeographed letter to daily newspaper sports editors around the State with the obvious intent of enlisting their support in bringing about such athletic relationship between the two schools.

Marshall notes that the State Board of Control prohibits FSU and the U of F from meeting in football but sees no reason why Florida should decline to play Florida State in other sports.

"I have heard it said," writes Marshall, "that Florida won't meet us because they would have everything to lose and nothing to gain. Certainly this is not as true as it is when they meet Stetson, Florida Southern, Tampa and other such schools.

"I have also heard that we are not strong enough to meet Florida teams yet. That reasoning doesn't click with me either. Just look back to late January, for instance. We defeated the University of Tampa in basketball, 80-69. The very next night Tampa toppled Florida at Gainesville by two points. The following week in swimming we trounced the University of Georgia, 43-32. And the next afternoon, Georgia walloped Florida, 50-25. In baseball last Spring, our team did as well against common opponents as the Gators. The same goes for our golf team.

"It could be that the Fighting Gators are just scared."

No, Scott, the Fighting Gators aren't scared but it could be they don't think they're good enough to play FSU instead of vice versa.

All joking aside, athletic relations between the two schools could be arranged, probably even in football, if FSU would, as has been pointed out here before, adhere to Southeastern Conference eligibility rules, particularly the one requiring transfers to establish one year of residence before being allowed to compete on varsity teams.

It's true Florida currently meets some State schools which do not have at the present time the one year residence rule but these relationships are of long standing.

Any newspaper campaign designed to force Florida into playing FSU undoubtedly will stiffen the resolve of athletic authorities at Gainesville against doing so. If FSU wants to get on Florida's schedule, the best way to accomplish this would be for Dr. Howard G. Danford to get together personally with Bob Woodruff.

As far as we're concerned, we'd like to see this meeting take place today. It's inevitable that athletic teams of the two schools will meet and we say the sooner the better. Only more ill feeling can result from delay.

FSU was on Miami's schedule this season and getting on those of Georgia Tech and VMI for next year means real recogonition for the Seminoles.

FSU and its supporters won't be satisfied, however, until the University of Florida decides to recognize that it exists and permits the Gators to play the Seminoles in all branches of sport.

Many others, including those whose allegiance rests primarily with the University of Florida, feel the same way.

An athletic program, despite anything the idealists or purists have to say on the subject, must pay its way and without football that objective can't be achieved.

If the University of Florida were to open its football season by playing Florida State, the game would fill the stadium at Gainesville and most of the proceeds would be clear profit.

State supported schools in Georgia, Alabama and Mississippi enjoy and profit from athletic relationship and there's no sound reason why those in Florida can't either.

Those persons who control the athletic policy of the University of Florida might as well recognize now as later that there is a big and ever growing university here in Tallahassee.

On the walls of the American Legion Home there were a number of drawings, one of which depicted a Seminole locked in mortal combat with an Alligator. The caption said: "Anytime before '59."

How long is the U of F going to ignore the challenge?

Johns said he thought a Florida-Florida State football rivalry would be "good for both schools" and Rienhart said "it could develop into one of the best contests in the state in time."

The Board of Control, which governs all state-supported universities, has a regulation which prohibits football games between Florida and Florida State. The two schools are allowed to meet in other sports, but never have except in tournaments.

Johns made his comment in answer to a question from Charles Rosenberg, president of the Seminole Booster Club as the acting governor accepted an honorary membership in the organization of Tallahasseeans devoted to promoting FSU athetics.

Johns said he would not actively urge a football series between the two state universities.

"That ought to be left to the athletic departments of the two schools and the board of control. I don't think a governor should meddle in things like that. But I would be for it if anyone asks me," he said.

Rinehart, asked at Miami to comment on Johns' words, said there had been some discussion by the presidents of the two schools at Board of Control meetings "and there is a general feeling they are not quite ready to play each other at this time."

He said the Board of Control "certainly would not oppose such a game, if the institutions felt they were ready."

Rinehart also said he believed the present allocation of racing scholarship money should be readjusted so that Florida State "may have an opportunity to grow up athletically."

Under the present system of distributing the money raised for athletic scholarships through special days of racing at Florida tracks, the University of Florida gets about twice as much money as Florida State.

Last year, for example, Florida received $134,000 or 56 per cent of the total in racing scholarship money. Florida State received $75,000 or 32 percent and Florida A&M University received $28,000 or 12 percent.

Florida Athletic Director and Head Football Coach Bob Woodruff declined comment on the possibility of playing Florida State, but FSU Head Coach Tom Nugent said he believed the Seminoles would be ready in a year or two to give Florida "topflight competition."

Johns, who introduced featured speaker Ralph Jordan of Auburn, praised the Auburn team for its outstanding record this year and said that he was in favor of more football of the caliber that the Plainsmen played.

Jordan, the Southeastern Conference coach of the year, took a poke at the new 30 freshman rule that goes into effect in the SEC next year.

"This may be the handwriting on the wall as far as the SEC is concerned. I wouldn't be surprised to see the SEC badly hurt in competition with other conferences."

Jordan also said he wouldn't be surprised to see an independent make great progress.

Auburn and Florida State play next year for the first time. Jordan said, "I hope Auburn and FSU can go down through the years with their schedule. We are mighty pleased to have them play us."

Jordan observed that there has been things said about Auburn not willing to play Texas Tech in the Gator Bowl.

"The rumor got started because Auburn did want to play Kentucky as impetus to a new series which opens next year. If we have occasion to go to another bowl, the experience in Jacksonville will prove invaluable." He predicted that Auburn would have just as good a team next year but probably would not do as well in the won-lost column.

Acting Governor Johns commissioned Jordan a lieutenant colonel on his staff.

Johns said, "I don't know of any occupation worse than a coach unless it is being a governor."

Johns also advised Jordan to "be smart like Bob Woodruff an get your university to give you a seven year contract."

Then he added, "I want to say to Bob Woodruff that I know we are going to have one of the best seasons Florida has ever known. But I shall never criticize him regardless of the record. When Florida beats Georgia, I consider the season a success."

Commenting on Johns' statement about Florida and FSU playing, Florida State athletic director Howard Danford said, "We have 11 games scheduled for 1954 but have several openings for 1955."

Nugent said, "I am heartily in accord and was pleasently surprised that he would say that from the platform."

Woodruff had no comment.

The action made possible by the 1956 season a football game between the two state supported schools which previously have seldom competed against each other in athletic events.

Board Chairman Hollis Rinehart of Miami said schedules through 1955 already drafted might make it necessary to delay the intial football contest between the University of Florida Gators here and the Florida State University Seminoles at Tallahassee until 1956.

Rinehart in announcing the rule rescision said if there was very much of a time lag in scheduling a Florida-FSU contest, the board might resort to a little needling.

FSU, formerly Florida State College for Women, was raised to a university in 1947 and made coeducational. At that time, Rinehart said, FSU was permitted to schedule competition in minor sports but was directed to limit its football schedule to schools considered to be in a minor category.

"FSU was told that when it reached a stage in football experience and power when it could hold its own with the University of Florida and other schools of comparable size and potentiality, the rule would be rescinded," the chairman explained.

"The board feels that time has come. FSU has clearly demonstrated that it has the power to give the Gators and other Southeastern Conference schools fair and equal competition, and we have unanimously given the go ahead signal for unrestricted scheduling."

FSU alumni and students in recent years have clamored for a Gator game but University of Florida students have shown less enthusiasm.

Acting Governor Charley E. Johns as late as last Monday night at a Tallahassee Quarterback Club meeting renewed his suggestion the two schools meet on the gridiron.

"Let's get these two great teams to playing each other," he said with both Woodruff and FSU's Tom Nugent sitting beside him on the platform.

University of Florida coach Bob Wookdruff expressed his views in a telephone conversation with the Times Union last night concerning the State Board of Control's action.

"Perhaps the game can be scheduled sometime in the future and I think it will be a natural rivalry between the two state institutions. However, our traditional rival now is Miami. Of course we also have traditional rivals in the Southeastern Conference."

Woodruff explained that most of the others schools in the SEC put most emphasis on their conference games and prefer to play intra-state games at the end of the season as the last game on the schedule. The present schedule arrangement between Miami and Florida is based on that idea.

"I realize that a decision will have to be made whether FSU or Miami will be our traditional rival because I don't see how Florida can play two big state games, neither of which is in the SEC, and also six traditional SEC foes."

Dr. Howard Danford, director of athletics at Florida State University, is "delighted by the action of the Board of Control" but will not move to arrange a football game with University of Florida until he confers with FSU President Doak S. Campbell.

"While I personally feel that Florida has the better team right now, I believe we will be ready to give them quality competition when the time comes that football relationships can be started," Dr. Danford said.

FSU will face Georgia, Auburn and Villanova this year and certainly would not shy away from a game with Florida, he added.

"We had hoped to be competing with Florida in sports other than football before this," Danford said. "Two years ago I conferred with Bob Woodruff and I left his office convinced that Florida and Florida State would be opening athletic relations in at least four sports other than football. However, nothing ever happened."

Danford told of a two hour session with Woodruff last Saturday morning in Danford's home. Earlier, Woodruff had agreed to a December meeting with Danford to discuss the possible inauguration of athletic relationship between the two schools but there was no advance notice of the Saturday discussion.

Danford said Woodruff brought to him a proposal on Florida-FSU athletic relations.

"Coach Woodruff said Florida would be very happy to meet us, beginning in the spring in track, tennis, golf and swimming provided the we would not seek contests with them in any other sports," Danford said.

Other sports would include baseball and basketball, in addition to football.

"I was shocked," Danford continued.

"I told Bob that I felt sure that our athletic committee would not approve such a proposal, and that even if the athletic committee did, I was even more sure that our alumni would not approve."

Danford said the athletic committee has not met to consider the proposal and indicated there was no plan for such a meeting. He added that he had talked, individually, to several members of the athletic committee and all disapproved.

"I suggested to Woodruff," Danford said, "that we go ahead and meet in tennis, track, golf and swimming in the spring without any provision. He replied that under no conditions would we meet in these sports unless we agreed to the proposal."

Danford said he asked Woodruff how many Southeastern Conference games Florida is obliged to play each year.

"He said that the number is six. I pointed out that Miami made seven games and I asked why Florida State could not fill one of the three remaining dates. He repeated that he was not interested in playing FSU in football ever."

Florida has never scheduled FSU in any sport. Recently, there has been speculation that the two schools would inaugurate athletic relationships next year with the possibility of a football game in 1955 or 1956. Some members of the Board of Control and Acting Governor Charley Johns went on record in favor of athletics between the two state institutions during the past year and there has been agitation on the subject from other sources.

FSU Coach Tom Nugent has said he is ready to meet Florida in football "anywhere, anytime."

Concluding his review of the meeting with Woodruff, Danford said, "I am convinced that any effort on my part through Mr. Woodruff would be a waste of time and energy."

GAINESVILLE, FL - Athletic Director Bob Woodruff said today that Florda's Southeastern Confernece commitments and traditional rivalry with Miami keep the Gators from meeting FSU in football, basketball and baseball.

Woodruff said he and Dr. Howard Danford, FSU's athletic director, "did discuss several possibilities but now it doesn't appear they are interested in opening athletic relations with us. I don't believe that we made any appreciable progress."

He said Florida's schedule policy is set up to include SEC rivals and "our natural rival in the state - Miami. The only trips Florida baseball and basketball teams made are for SEC and Miami games," Woodruff said, "and since the players are already out of school 9 1/2 days for each conference trip, Florida would have to start relations with FSU in sports where schedule commitments are possible."

SEC titles in the four sports he mentioned - track, tennis, golf and swimming - are decided by tournaments rather than round robin schedules.

"I thought I made a liberal offer and told FSU that I thought our athletic board would go along with me," Woodruff said. "If they are not interested in that, I believe that we have little hope of getting together. There is no hope for the opening of athletic relations between the two schools if football is FSU's only issue."

State Senator Harry Stratton of Callahan said yesterday such a measure was being drawn by Assistant Attorney General Tom Henderson and he planned to introduce it on the first day of the session which begins in April.

Competition between the two state schools has been strongly urged from several quarters in the past few years.

Florida athletic director and coach Bob Woodruff and FSU athletic director Howard Danford discussed the issue at a December conference but no agreement was reached.

Dr. Danford said Woodruff had offered to meet FSU in minor sports provided Florida State did not seek competition in football, basketball or baseball.

Woodruff said Florida would be unable to schedule FSU in the major sports because of its Southeastern Conference commitments and traditional rivalry with the University of Miami.

Senator Stratton, who said he expected to have several co-sponsors of the bill, said "we won't attempt to try to make them play this coming year but we intend to try to make them play in 1956 if possible, preferably in Jacksonville." He said the bill is being copied after the Wisconsin law.

The Wisconsin legislature passed an act forcing football games between the University of Wisconsin and Marquette University after the University of Wisconsin refused to meet Marquette. Other schools which have been compelled by law to play each other are the University of Alabama and Auburn, Georgia and Georgia Tech, and Clemson and South Carolina.

Coach Woodruff was not immediately available for comment.

At Tallahassee, football coach Tom Nugent said, "I think it's fine. I'm for it, of course."

Florida and FSU have not met regularly in sports since Florida State became coeducational in 1947. Previously it was a women's college.

Senator Stratton said he had discussed the matter with a number of senators and said none were against it. He said he thought a football game between the two "would be good for the state and good for the two schools. At least it will prove whether FSU is ready for that kind of football. I think they are."

First reaction of legislators was mixed.

Senator Wilson Carraway of Tallahassee said he was in favor "of doing anything necessary to get them (the schools) together." He said he felt the two schools should "have relations in all branches of sports, not just minor ones."

Representative Kenneth Ballinger of Tallahassee said he would like to see a football game between Florida and FSU "but by common agreement rather than law."

Representative Mallory Horne of Tallahassee said he feared injection of the football issue might disrupt efforts for closer cooperation between the two schools but added, "If the bill is introduced, I would lean towards supporting it, but I don't think the legislature should have to be concerned with it with all its other important issues."

Representative Ralph Turlington of Gainesville said "it seems to me that this is a matter between the athletic associations of the two institutions. I hope that athletic relations between the two schools will be developed."

Senator WA Shands of Gainesville said, "I feel that it is a policy making matter which should be handled by the policy making board, which is the board of control. I think it would be unwise to take such action by statute. It comes under the heading of administration and should be handled by the proper administrative authority."

FSU embarked on a big school football schedule last year and played in the New Year's Day Sun Bowl game at El Paso, Texas.

Among its opponents next season are Miami, Georgia, Georgia Tech and Auburn.

And the board, which has life-and-death control over all state supported colleges, already is on record as favoring football games between the two schools.

A member of the board, Hollis Rinehart of Miami, disclosed the board's entry into the controversy after State Senator Harry Stratton of Callahan announced yesterday he would sponsor legislation to force the two schools to schedule each other.

Rinehart said the board, at a regular meeting in Sarasota Friday, plopped the matter into the hands of Dr. John Allen, Florida's acting president; Dr. Doak Campbell, FSU president; and Dr. Broward Culpepper of Tallahassee, executive secretary of the Board of Control.

Rinehart said the board expects a report from the committee at a meeting in St. Augustine, February 17-18 and that the board feels the trio will work out a solution.

"We recognized that there was considerable public interest in the matter and decided to put it into the hands of the presidents since the athletic directors can't get together," Rinehart said.

He added he was opposed to Stratton's proposal that the legislature force the schools to meet.

"It will be a sad state of affairs when the legislature makes out the football schedules for the State schols," he commented.

Last month athletic directors of the two schools, Bob Woodruff of Florida and Howard Danford of FSU, met to discuss athletic contests between the two schools. Danford reported that Woodruff said Florida would never play FSU in football.

Woodruff reportedly was willing to schedule minor sports, but not if FSU persisted in its demands for a football meeting. Woodruff argued that Florida did not have room in its 10 game schedule because of its commitments to Southeastern Conference foes (six are required) and the traditional rivalry with Miami.

"Apparently Coach Woodruff has been dragging his feet," said Rinehart. "It just isn't good sense to say that the schools never will meet in football."

The game would be played here each season on the third Saturday in September, at 2:30 pm, Woodruff said.

He also listed as conditions for the opening of gridiron relations between the two major state supported schools: that FSU be given the same flat guarantee which the Seminoles received when they have played Auburn and Georgia Tech, other Southeastern Conference teams, and that all players to be used by FSU in the games meet Southeastern Conference eligibility requirements from the date of enrollment at the Tallahassee school.

Woodruff explained that football schedules are made far in advance and that commitments have been set up by the University of Florida for a 10 game schedule in each of the next three seasons. The NCAA has recently passed a regulation forbidding member teams to play more than 10 games in the regular season.

He also pointed out that Florida is giving up its opportunity to schedule a game with a team such as Rice. The income from the Rice game the past two years has been over $50,000.

Woodruff's offer came after a recent statement from Dr. Howard Danford, FSU athletic director, that Woodruff had declared he never wanted to play FSU in football, and after an announcement by State Senator Harry Stratton of Nassau County, that he would offer a bill in the next session of the Legislature forcing a gridiron engagement between the two schools.

Hollis Rinehart, Board of Control member from Miami, also announced yesterday that the board had, last Friday, passed a resolution requiring the presidents of the two schools to make arrangements for the game.

"I regret that the University of Florida's position in this matter has been misrepresented to the Board of Control," Woodruff said tonight. "I have just talked to Dr. John Allen (acting president of the Uninversity of Flrida) and he had no knowledge of the request made Friday that he and the president of FSU make a football contest between their two schools possible.

"We had been informed last year that the previous Board of Control ban on athletic contests betweeen the two schools had been lifted, but there was nothing mandatory in the change. I also talked personally with the then Chairman of the board, Mr. Rinehart, who advised me to talk with FSU concerning a start of athletic relationships. He hoped that we could get together in minor sports if not football and other sports in which we had SEC commitments. This I did.

"I do not recall making a statement to anyone that Florida would not ever schedule FSU in football," Woodruff continued. "Our schedule policy was discussed with our faculty committee on athletics and it advised against a football game with FSU at this time, but left the entire matter up to me as director of athletics concerning the future. This matter of beginning athletic relationships was taken up also with the executive council of the University of Florida Alumni Association last June and it voted against scheduling FSU in anything and passed a resolution requesting us to continue our present schedule policies.

"I also hope," Woodruff said, "that our future athletic relationships may be conducted other than in the press."

Woodruff then outlined his conditions for the game.

Woodruff said the first game couldn't be played until 1958 because Florida already had commitments for 10 games for the next three seasons. The NCAA forbids member teams to play more than 10 games in a regular season.

Woodruff proposed that the game be played in Gainesville each season on the third Saturday in September. FSU would get the same flat guarantee it received when playing Auburn and Georgia Tech and other Southeastern Conference teams, and all players used by FSU must meet SEC eligibility requirements.

Nugent said when advised of Woodruff's requirements, "apparently the only condition that Woodruff didn't specify is that we would agree to lose.

As ridiculous as this whole thing sounds to me, I would like to make a request that I be allowed to name my own starting lineups."

Nugent said if the competition were inaugurated on the third Saturday in September, 1958, that would catch Florida State at the start of a new rebuilding program "when we would be at the worst."

Dr. Ken Miller, Florida State's acting athletic director, said today he doubted, however, whether any competition could be arranged this spring since schedules in spring sports have been completed.

A formal report on prospects for arranging schedules between the two schools in all sports will be made at a meeting of the Board of Control in St. Augustine Thursday afternoon.

The inter-institutional committee, composed of presidents of the two institutions and executive secretary J. Broward Culpeper of the board of control, was assigned the job last month of trying to work out a program of competition between the two schools.

Dr. Miller said the athetic departments were told several days ago to proceed with negotiations, but that so far they haven't gotten dowm to details. At Gainesville, Florida athletic director Bob Woodruff declined to comment on schedule negotiations.

A state senator who has said recently he would try to get a law passed to require Florida and Florida State to meet in football told newsmen in Tampa it would be better if a schedule could be arranged without a law being passed.

State Senator Harry Stratton of Callahan said "with so many people wanting a game it seems to me that it should be played." He has said he will introduce a bill requiring the two teams meet if they can't get together.

Dr. Miller, who is in charge of the FSU athletic department during the absence of athletic director Howard Danford, didn't say about football prospects but as for spring sports it probably would be next spring before the two schools could meet.

"Schedules this spring already have been completed and it is difficult to alter them," he said.

Woodruff said recently that because of schedule commitments the Florida football team couldn't meet Florda State until 1958.

Schedule commitments was one of the points taken up by the inter-institutional committee and some report on that phase of the discussion may be made Thursday.

But no decision was reached as to whether there will be a football game soon, nor were dates set for any meetings.

These matters will be left to the schools to negotiate, and if agreement fails there, the Inter-University Committee of the Board may act.

The Inter-University Committee said in a report, which was adopted by the board today:

"1. We believe it is desireable for the University of Florida and Florida State University to enter into intercollegiate competition in all sports.

"2. This competition is to be inititated in each sport as soon as possible although we recognize that a different period of time will be required before schedule openings occur for the various sports.

"3. The athletic relationships must be on terms mutually agreed upon.

"4. The details of scheduling these competitive events will be handled by the agencies within the universities having these responsibilities.

"5. According to these agreements then the director of athletics of each university is to be instructed to proceed with the details of scheduling."

Letters were circulated at the meeting from Woodruff to Dr. John S. Allen, University of Florida acting president, and to Dr. Kenneth Miller, acting athletic director at FSU.

Woodruff proposed in the letter to Dr. Allen that there be no competition in any sport "until such time as agreement has been reached to schedule a football contest, the contest has been played and it has been clearly demonstrated that our athletic relations will be on a friendly basis and mutually beneficial."

He accused FSU of misrepresenting Florida's position in press releases and of violating a portion of the Inter-University Committee's agreement pertaining to publicity.

Woodruff said an Associated Press dispatch from Tallahassee quoted Miller as saying "The athletic departments were told several days ago to proceed with negotiations, but that so far they haven't gotten down to details."

Woodruff continued: "This statement is completely untrue and evidently was made after receiving our schedule proposals. The fact is that to this date I have not received a reply to the proposals in my letter of February 10 to Dr. Miller."

He said he had been led to believe that FSU "does not want to meet the University of Florida on any mutual terms, but they are campaigning, through the press, to bring about an order for our two schools to enter into an athletic competition, and hope to order the terms and conditions under which our teams shall play.

"These facts fully confirm in my mind that this recent publicity is released to influence the Board of Control as was the story by Dr. Danforth that I had made a statement that Florida would never play FSU in football. I feel that this unfair and biased publicity can not promote anything but ill will between both of our athletic departments, our alumni and eventually the friends of both institutions," he added.

Woodruff's letter to Dr. Miller reads as follows:

"All of the above games shall be conducted under of the rules and regulations of the Southeastern Conference. (Eligibility blanks and athletic forms shall be filed with the commissioner's office of the Southeastern Conference and a list of students who meet these requirements shall be exchanged by the facilty chairmen of athletics of our respective institutions.)

"Since there is no admission charge for these sports here at the University of Florida, I suggest that each team pay its own expenses and that there be no guarantee for playing these contests.

"I will appreciate a reply in the next few days so that we might complete our spring sports schedule.

"Regarding our proposed sdcheduling of a football game to be played in Gainesville, Florida beginning in 1958. I understand that the length of the contract was the main objection on your part. Since the offer to schedule beginning in 1958 the Southeastern Conference athletic directors have met to set up the schedules for 1958 and 1959. I am not certain at this time that the date I offered to Florida State University will be open for a non-conference game in 1958. I would like to suggest the following:

"That we agree to play beginning in 1958 on September 20, in 1959 on September 19, in 1960 on September 17 for a three year period; or if it is necessary for us to use this date to schedule a Southeastern Conference game in order to comply with our conference requirements, that we play on some other mutually agreeable date for a period of three years under the same terms and conditions that were offered in the five year proposal.

"Furthermore to comply with paragraph five of the university committee's agreement, if these proposals meet with your approval that a joint public announcement be made through both our sports publicity offices next Monday, February 14. It is necessary that we announce our spring sports schedule as soon as possible.

"Schedules in the above spring sports were offered to Mr. Danforth at our meeting in December."

Dr. Doak Campbell, president of Florida State University, expressed dissatisfaction with the football proposals.

He said the three year plan is "unilateral and no different" from a five year proposal offered by Woodruff earlier. FSU Coach Tom Nugent had said the only condition Woodruff did not attach to the earlier proposal was that FSU agree to lose.

Campbell told the board he planned to bring a counterproposal before the inter-university committee.

He also defended the newspaper stories involving Miller, saying "the reporter who first called apparently had inside information from elsewhere." He added that "anyone at FSU who did violate conditions of the agreement would be properly taken care of. We intend to find the person."

The Inter-University Committee agreement stipulated that during negotiations no public statement would be made to the press or anyone by either party without clearing it through the university president to whom the party is responsible.

"I've got enough votes promised in here to pass it," he said, "but I don't know about the fellows over there." He referred to the House.

Stratton said he planned to introduce his bill as soon as he completed its drafting "probably early next week."

He said the bill not only would require the Gators to meet the Seminoles but would fix the game site and all conditions.

"It will have to be played at Jacksonville and they'll split the gate 50-50," he added.

"Unless the universities reach a decision before Monday to voluntarily play each other in football, my bill goes in," Stratton, from Callahan, said. "I believe there are enough votes to pass it in the Senate."

FSU President Doak Campbell and University of Florida head J. Wayne Reitz met last night to discuss the whole field of relations between the two universities, including athletics.

"No decision was reached," reported Broward Culpepper, executive secretary of the Board of Control and a member of the inter-relations committee. "You couldn't expect Dr. Reitz, who has just taken office, to come into the picture that quickly.

"What the outcome will be in relation to the legislature, I can't say," he added, "but progress is being made and we're moving ahead."

He said Dr. Reitz "naturally will want to go back and discuss it with his people before making a decision," Culpepper said. Another conference is scheduled but he doubted if it would be possible to reach a decision before Monday.

The Board of Control already has directed the two universities to develop a program of athletic competition.

Stratton's bill would require that the football game be held on some neutral ground away from Tallahassee and Gainesville but sets no specific place. It also requires that the two universities share the proceeds 50-50.

University of Florida coach Bob Woodruff recently proposed the two colleges meet on the gridiron, but he stipulated that the game be played at Gainesville on a certain date each year and that the lion's share of the gate receipts go to the University of Florida.

"It seems he wants us to promise everything but lose the game," was the reaction of FSU Coach Tom Nugent to the conditions laid down by Woodruff.

He said today he will be glad to show the Nassau County senator how these offers fit with Florida's schedule policies which were adopted and approved by the State Board of Control when he accepted the position of athletic director and head coach in 1950.

Woodruff also said he is continuing to carry out Board of Control instructions and would not discuss the progress of negotiations with FSU, since both universities had agreed not to discuss their business through the press.

He did not elaborate on the press statement.

Stratton, one-time professional baseball player and former manager of a Gainesville bowling alley, has said he would introduce a bill in the Legislature forcing the two teams to play.

In Tallahassee Friday, however, he said he would hold up his bill until Tuesday in lieu of the talk Monday.

The bill provides a 50-50 split in game proceeds with the first game to be played in 1956 at a site to be set by the heads of the two university.

Woodruff has stated previously that he had made commitments for ten games in 1956 and 1957, and therefore could not offer to play FSU before 1958, since he is opposed to playing more than ten games. Eleven games, he explained, would be in violation of national regulations.

Woodruff said he plans to continue to negotiate with the athletic authorities of FSU as agreed upon by both universities, and that Florida has already agreed to play FSU in all sports, when mutually agreeable dates and terms can be established.

He said that while he understands the Florida-FSU game is important to FSU, consideration must be made for the main objective in Florida's intercollegiate athletic program, which is to represent the state and the university with representative teams in the Southeastern Conference.

To accomplish this objective, he said, all scheduling of athletic contests would continue to be made at Florida by persons within the university responsible for making the schedules, and not through the Legislature.

"I believe Senator Stratton will join with me in being proud of all the Florida Gator teams that have set one of the highest records in Southeastern Conference athletic competition in all sports since 1950, winning 178 games, losing 119 and tieing five for a percentage of .580," Woodruff said.

Stratton at his home in Callahan, said he would be glad to sit down and discuss it with Woodruff at Tallahassee, Monday.

"If they can get together without the law, I'll be happy," Stratton said. "But they tell me they can't play more than 10 games under NCAA regulations without a state law."

Stratton's bill calls for a game in 1956.

"Maybe the Gator Bowl can invite them," he suggested with a chuckle.

Stratton said he has "two bushel baskets full of letters" about his proposal. Many are fom University of Florida graduates favoring a Florida-FSU game, he said.

Stratton said he was trying to arrange a meeting here tomorrow between the presidents and athletic directors of the two schools so they can get down to actual negotiations.

Failing in these efforts, Stratton said he'd join Senator Connor of Inverness in trying to pass Connor's force bill.

"I believe there has been sufficient time for the two schools to get together and I'm ready to start some legislative action if there isn't some immediate negotiating,"

Stratton said that as he interpreted Connor's bill it would require the two schools to meet this fall because it would become effective with the Governor's signature. Stratton previously had planned to put in a bill to force the teams to meet in 1956.

Stratton met with Florida Coach Bob Woodruff yesterday and afterwards Stratton said Woodruff expressed a willingness to negotiate further on a game date.

Connor said if Florida and Florida State would agree to meet by next year he would withdraw his bill.

Woodruff has said he didn't see how Florida could meet FSU before 1958 because of 10 game schedules already arranged before then. However, Stratton and Woodruff didn't say positively the two teams couldn't play before then.

Dr. Howard G. Danford, FSU Athletic Diretor, said "it is my understanding that under the policy of the Board of Control all information on this subject is to be released by the president's office. Therefore, I must decline comment."

Dr. Doak S. Campbell, president of Florida State, could not be contacted for comment.

Stratton, a former professional baseball player and a high school football star, said he would drop his plans to introduce a bill requiring the two colleges to meet. Senator Connor of Inverness introduced Monday a bill which would order the two teams to play.

Stratton wanted a law to have the teams meet in 1956. Connor's bill sets no date, but the bill provides it would go into effect immediately upon becoming a law.

The Senate Miscellaneous Committee did not discuss the measure. It only voted on the motion to place it in a position for a vote.

Senator Stratton of Callahan, one of the backers of the measure, said he wanted to get an early vote on it.

The bill was introduced by Senator Connor of Inverness.

Connor withheld comment on a ruling by the NCAA that if the legislature forces the two teams to play a game in regular season they can play only nine other games.

Therefore, if the schools have 10 games scheduled they would have to drop one of them before they could meet in the tenth game.

At Gainesville, Coach Bob Woodward said Florida has 10 games scheduled through 1957 and if any contest falls through he would consider adding FSU to the schedule.

He also said, "We will not violate NCAA rules, if I have anything to do with it. We would have to withdraw from the Southeastern Conference to schedule more than 10 games.

At the Board of Control meeting here today, Dr. J Wayne Reitz, president of the University of Florida, said he believed the inter-university committee established by the Board of Control to work out the details for a football meeting, was progressing satisfactorily.

Woodruff and Stratton both attended the University of Tennessee and played football there but not at the same time.

GAINESVILLE, FL, April 21, 1955 - Florida coach Bob Woodruff dropped a broad hint today that the State Legislature shouldn't try to make his football schedules.

A bill before the Legislature which would force Florida to play Florida State brought on Woodruff's statement.

He called attention to a provision of the National Collegiate Athletic Association constitution which he said sets forth the primary purpose of that organization as "upholding the principle of institutional control of responsibility for all collegiate sports."

This means, Woodruff said, that interference by outside groups is not permissible under the NCAA constitution.

State Senator Harry Stratton of Callahan, one of the leaders in the move to force a Florida-FSU game, has said the teams would be able to play 11 games this fall if the legislature forces them to meet. Both have already announced 10 game schedules.

But at Kansas City yesterday, Walter Byers, executive secretary of the NCAA, said member schools may not play more than 10 regular season games.

If forced to meet each other, it would mean they would have to drop another game already under contract.

The two schools have not met in regularly scheduled athletic competition since both became coeducational in 1947. Before that Florida was an all-boys school and FSU was for girls only.

Although Senator Connor of Inverness, an alumnus of the Gainesville institution and author-sponsor of the bill, tried hard to appease opponents by offering amendments which would not have required the two universities to meet before 1958, the bill was killed.

Other amendments would have provided for contests under Southeastern Conference regulations and require the Tallahassee university to accept the same financial arrangements it holds with other conference rivals.

The Inverness lawmaker, urging passage of the bill, said Colonel Everett Yon of the University of Florida's athletic department had informed him that with the amendments the bill was acceptable to his school.

Senators Carraway of Tallahassee and Shands of Gainesville, representing the counties in which the schools are located and spokesmen for the universities, voted for the bill. Shands, however, did not speak for the bill. Senator Morgan of Jacksonville was among the 15 who supported the measure.

Carraway said he believed legislation would be the only way to get the teams to meet on the gridiron. He mentioned several futile attempts to work out voluntary sports events between the schools.

"I am firmly convinced," he explained, "unless some action such as this is adopted, we won't get a game scheduled between the two teams within the next five or six years."

Senator King of Winter Haven asked Carraway if he thought "coercion is the proper foundation on which to establish rivalry between these two schools."

"It seems to be the only solution," replied Carraway. "Before Senator Connor introduced his bill, we couldn't even get the schools to talk football business."

Senator Gautier of Miami said he did not think the Legislators "should dictate football schedules to these universities."

Senator Cabot of Fort Lauderdale, a freshman, said, "I have been amazed by some of the subjects that have come before us - this is one of them."

"I come from a large family, and one of them - my cousin - is a captain on the Florida State football team. My cousin said to me, 'we want this game bad. Fight for it for us.' I told him, as I tell you senators, I think we have more important things to do in the State of Florida."

Senator Stratton of Callahan, who several months ago started agitation for a Florida-Florida State football game, by law if necessary, expressed belief it would become the greatest sports attraction in the state.

He said he had received many letters telling him to "keep my nose out of University of Florida affairs." But, he said, he answered the letter with a question, "If the game is played do you want a ticket?"

He added, "Everyone wrote back: get me a ticket."

Senator Rodgers of Winter Garden told his colleagues "the Senate has more important business to handle than to set up ourselves as Monday morning quarterbacks."

Connor vigorously defended his bill. "I think it will create a healty situation," he declared. "It will surely bring about better relations between the schools and will please the alumni and fans."

The Florida Senate killed the proposal 19-15 yesterday.

Senator Shands of Gainesville, generally regarded as Senate spokesman for University of Florida affairs, said the intent in the bill was an indication the public wants action in arranging a Florida-FSU game.

Woodruff said that since the proposal, introduced by Senator Connor of Inverness, had been defeated, he hoped "the scheduling of athletic contests will remain as a simple administrative function in the department of athletics at both our state universities.

"This has not and will not affect our agreement to negotiate with FSU to begin athletic competition in all sports, as soon as possible. Mutually agreeable terms and conditions must be agreed upon by both schools for these athletic contests.

"While it is understood that it will take longer to set up games in some sports than others, I feel confident that arrangements will be reached for some athletic contests for next year. Such arrangements when reached will be announced jointly by Florida and FSU.

"Students, faculty and alumni of both Florida and FSU want athletic contests under conditions that are agreeable to both institutions. This will promote friendly competition...Without this there is no basis for games between students at our universities."

The announcement by the University of Florida, followed a meeting on the campus here between Florida Coach Bob Woodruff, Dr. Howard G. Danforth, athletic director of FSU, and the faculty chairmen of athletics of the two schools.

Woodruff said, "No agreement was reached on football, basketball or baseball although there was considerable disussion of these sports."

Competition will begin in 1956 in golf, track, tennis and swimming with the dates and times to be announced later when the regular schedules are released.

The announcement said "The reason no agreement was reached in football, basketball and baseball is that FSU does not wish to compete with Florida in those sports unless it is on a home-and-home basis and 50-50 division of the gate receipts."

Woodruff called on FSU to accept his latest offer for a football game in 1958.

The announcement quoted him as saying that "Under Florida's well established policies and the inter-university agreement reached on February 5 this year that this is the latest contract offer since January, 1955, to play a football game in 1958 and was the best offer under existing conditions that Florida is in a position to make."

The terms and conditions of this offer, he said, provide for a game to be played on Florida Field here, with FSU to receive a $20,000 guarantee as its share of the gate receipts and also 8,000 reserved seats for use by FSU students and faculty or as FSU sees fit.

"Since it is necessary for Florida to proceed with it's scheduling of other opponents in 1958," Woodruff said, "it is desirable that FSU make an early decision regarding the latest offer for football."

Woodruff's earlier offers provided for a three to five year football schedule, with all games to be played in Gainesville, FSU to accept the same guarantee it gets for playing other Southeastern Conference teams, and FSU to observe SEC eligibility requirements.

Dr. Danford said at Tallahassee in explanation of FSU's position regarding a football agreement: "The position taken by Florida State University is that home and home games, with equitable options regarding the disposition of gate receipts is based upon common practice and is in accord with agreements that have already been effected for games prior to 1958 with other Southeastern Conference teams Auburn and Georgia, and also with the University of Miami."

It was announced that the reason no agreement was reached in these sports was that FSU does not wish to compete with Florida in them unless it is on a home-and-home basis with a 50-50 division of the gate receipts.

That gate recipts angle insofar as basketball and baseball competition prompted us to call Coach Bob Woodruff of the University of Florida, who also doubles as the athletic director.

"Maybe we shouldn't have mentioned anything about the split of gate receipts holding up the scheduling of basketball and baseball games," said Woodruff, "since, as you know, these games are played on the basis of the home team keeping everything that's taken in at the gate. And gate receipts at college baseball games are negligible."

Then Woodruff launched into a dissertation on the policy governing the scheduling of athletic contests by the University of Florida.

Leaving out the controversial subject of where and under what conditions any Florida-FSU football games should be played, here is what Woodruff said:

"In general, all athletic contests at Florida are scheduled first for the interest of the student body, second for the alumni, and third for the general public, keeping foremost at all times Florida's primary purpose for athletics, which is to represent the state and university in the Southeastern Conference.

"Conference championships in golf, tennis, track and swimming are determined solely by an annual meet or tournament. Therefore, Florida is free to schedule any number of games on any basis in these sports, provided the students participating meet the university regulations regarding the number of authorized days (9) they are allowed away from school for extra-curricular activities in any one semester.

"In other sports, Florida must, in addition to meeting university regulations, meet conference regulations regarding a definite number of games with member institutions in order to be eligible for the conference championships. In football, six conference games are required, while 14 conference games are required in basketball. Baseball requirements are being revised at the present time, but the number of required games will probably be 14, 16, or 18.

"After conferrence regulations are met, all other games are scheduled in these sports when and where they can best fit themselves in with these and other requirements. This is a common practice among all member institutions throughout every major conference in intercollegiate athletics. In fact, it is the rare exception when athletic relationships exist at all between state supported institutions in the same state unless these institutions are members of the same conference.

"This applies almost without exception in every football and basketball schedule of every state supported school in the Southeastern, Southwest, Big Ten and Pacific Coast Conferences. When competition does exist the games are usually scheduled when they can fit into other games of a conference member. These policies have provided the best all-around athletic record for Florida in the SEC since they were adopted in 1950."

Dr. J Broward Culpepper, executive secretary of the Board of Control, today made public the full text of a letter written to the board October 24 by Dr. Reitz.

In the letter, Dr. Reitz discussed the football contractual relations of the University of Florida with other colleges, listed nine game schedules for 1956 and 1957, and concluded:

"Rather than accept that which in my judgement would be regarded by alumni of this institution, our staff and other interested citizens as an arrangement not in our best interests, I would strongly recommend that the board reconsider its former action and establish instead as a matter of institutional policy that all attempts towards setting up a program of competitive athletic contests between Florida State University and the University of Florida be indefinitely suspended.

"Perhaps a more favorable climate for such competition may be developed after the lapse of a few years."

Dr. Reitz' letter was written, Culpepper said, in answer to a request he had made of the University of Florida president for information to be relayed to a state senator. Culpepper did not identify the state senator.

Board of Control chairman Fred Kent of Jacksonville said at the board meeting here November 18 that he and other members of the board had written Dr. Reitz, FSU President Doak S. Campbell and the athletic directors of the two schools about six weeks ago that unless they got together on sports competition, including football, the board itself reluctantly would have to take action.

Kent used the 9 game schedules listed in Reitz' letter of October 24, written, he said, after the board members received as justification for the board's directive, since NCAA rules permit 10 regular season games.

The board majority agreed that any games scheduled after October 24 should be cancelled if necessary to make room for a Florida-FSU football game. Both Florida and Florida State now have tentative 10 game schedules for 1956.

A check of letters written by Dr. Howard Danford, Florida State University athletic director, to Bob Woodruff, Florida athletic director and football coach, indicated that Woodruff's last offer for a fooball meeting was made May 30. At the time he offered to schedule Florida State for a single game in 1958 at Gainesville and offered a flat guarantee of $20,000.

Dr. Danford rejected this. Florida State University has insisted that Florida agree to a home and home series for two to four years with a contract providing a financial guarantee with the option of the visiting team taking 50 per cent of the gate receipts.

Dr. Culpepper said the matter was now in the hands of the two university presidents to work out.

Dr. Campbell said only that he and Dr. Reitz were "working eagerly" in line with the directive of the board of control.

The Board of Control two years ago lifted a long standing ban on athletic competition between the Univeristy of Florida and Florida State University. Last year, the board urged the two universities to schedule meetings in all other sports and to arrange a football game as soon as feasible.

But he repeated the Florida State expects to have the option of receiving 50 per cent of the gate receipts in any game played with Florida.

It was learned today that Florida on June 4 submitted to Florida State a proposition, which would have given FSU the option of 50 per cent of the gate for a game at Gainesville in 1958.

Dr. J Wayne Reitz, president of the University of Florida, told WM Pepper Jr., editor of the Gainesville Sun, in an interview that Athletic Director Bob Woodruff had offered Florida State a one year contract.

Under it Florida State would have received for a Gainesville appearance a guarantee of $12,000 or an option of 50 percent of the gate, with FSU's total sum to be $5,000 more than the Tallahassee institution received from either its 1956 game with Georgia at Athens, Ga or its 1956 meeting with Auburn at Auburn, Al.

Dr. Reitz said that in the June offer, Woodruff also had presented an alternate to Dr. Danford, a schedule opening game at Gainesville with FSU to receive a flat $20,000 guarantee.

Dr. Reitz said Florida State had rejected this offer, holding firm to its demand for a home and home series with a 50-50 division of the gate receipts.

Danford on July 7 told the Associated Press that "the position taken by Florida State is that home and home games with equitable options regarding the disposition of gate recepits is based upon common practice and is in accord with agreements that have already been effected for games prior to 1958 with other Southeastern Conference teams, Auburn and Georgia."

Danford said today that still is essentially Florida State's position, although FSU is willing to play at Gainesville or any mutually agreeable neutral field until Doak S Campbell Stadium here has been enlarged.

Danford said the June 4 offer from Woodruff did not give Florida State a 50 per cent option.

"The words in the offer are a smoke screen because what he really offered was that we would receive in 1958 for a game at Gainesville $5,000 more than we would receive from either Georgia or Auburn.

"I know, and he knows, that Florida State will not pack the stadium at Athens or at Auburn in 1956, but that a meeting between Florida State and Florida will pack any stadium in Florida, especially in view of the controversy there has been over the game.

"Florida would stand to make a mint of money on the game if they didn't have to pay us more than $5,000 above what we will get next year out of the Georgia or Auburn games."

Danford said the $20,000 flat guarantee was not as good as it looked, because it was conditioned on paid admissions of at least 25,000, exclusive of students and faculty of both institutions.

"For us to earn the $20,000, the total gate would have to be $105,000, which Woodruff himself says has never been achieved at Gainesville."

Dr. Reitz told the Gaineville Sun editor that Florida's first offer to FSU was made in January of this year. It provided for a five year series, all games to open the Florida schedule at Gainesville. Florida State would be guaranteed the largest amount ever received from a Southeastern Conference team up to January, 1955.

On February 10, Dr. Reitz said, Florida offered a one year contract for a Gainesville game with Florida State guaranteed $10,000 unless paid attendance reached 20,000, exclusive of students and faculty.

If attendance passed 20,000, FSU would get $15,000, and if the attendance exceeded 25,000, FSU would receive $20,000.

Florida State rejected all of these offers, which Dr. Reitz said were made in good faith.

In his letter of October 24 to Dr. J Broward Culpepper, secretary of the Board of Control, in which he suggested indefinite suspension of attempts to schedule a Florida-Florida State game, Dr. Reitz said:

"I feel very keenly that...our negotiations with FSU should not be on the basis of favoritism to one institution and against the best interests of the other...

"Yet we are confronted with a small pressure group which, in my judgement, would seek to force one institution to bow to conditions beyond a fair concept of equity which I do not believe would be appreciated by the host of Florida alumni once they know the offers made and the manner in which the rejections have been dominated...

"Proceeding in intercollegiate relationships should be developed on a gradual basis as other institutional relationships. If attendance and respected revenues in the intial series should prove as lucrative as exponents for the series predict, and are as good as other games on our schedule, subsequent contracts can register such progress...

"I agree with Senator Carraway that a decision should be reached though I would inject the thought that either we agree to play or not play. If we can reach an amicable decision, nothing would please me better.

"On the other hand I believe Dr. Campbell (Doak S. Campbell, FSU president) would be the first to concur that each of us has had an indivdual responsibility to represent his own institutional to the best of his ability.

"From such facts as I have at my disposal at this time...I am firmly of the opinion that we have made as fair and equitable a proposal to FSU as we are justified in making.

"I am not now prepared to recommend any modification."

The Reitz letter was written after Chairman Fred Kent and other Board of Control members had written the two university presidents and their athletic directors that unless football relations were negotiated by them, the board would have to step into the picture.

At a meeting here November 18, the board directed the two schools to get together on the football field next year.

Dr. Danford said today, "I feel the Board of Control expressed its will with the thought that the institutions were to be considered equals. That is all I expect, that Florida State will be treated as an equal by Florida.

"In asking an option of 50 per cent of the gate receipts, we are asking nothing more than we now receive from other Southeastern Conference schools, like Georgia and Auburn. We accepted a 40 per cent option from Miami because of the tremendous seating capacity of the Orange Bowl (in excess of 70,000)."

Dr. Doak S Campbell, FSU president, would make no comment, other than that he was trying to work out an agreement.

"I do not want to enter into any controversy over things that are in the past. Our task is to get together on a friendly basis," Campbell said.

Kent said the board has not relented in its demand the two schools meet on the gridiron next year, but he said he doesn't expect the Gators to have to cancel any game in the strick sense of that word.

He said he believed Florida could drop one of its opponents "by mutual agreement with no hard feelings or the NCAA might give them permission to play an 11th game.

"If the university has valid and binding contracts that can't be canceled by mutual agreement, then nothing can be done about" the FSU-Florida game in 1956, he said, unless the NCAA relaxes its 10 game rule.

"But I'm not worrying because I know the presidents will work it out. We don't intend to interfere with the details, but we will sit as arbitrators if the institutions can't reach an agreement."

At the November 18 meeting here where the board directed the schools to play in 1956 or else several members said the game was important enough to cancel one under negotiation. At that time, President J Wayne Reitz said Florida had contracts with eight teams and was in the process of negotiating with Miami and Georgia.

Kent said the board had made its desires on the FSU game known October 24 and any game scheduled since that date should be canceled if necessary to fit in FSU.

October 24 was the date of a letter from Dr. Reitz to board secretary J Broward Culpepper stating Florida had booked nine games for 1956 - Auburn, Clemson, Georgia, Georgia Tech, Kentucky, Mississippi State, Louisiana State, Vanderbilt and Miami.

But at the meeting, Reitz said he believed there were 10 games and it was mentioned that Rice was on the schedule. Therefore, the deduction was made that Rice was scheduled after October 24. Since then, however, it developed Rice wasn't contracted after the board deadline and Kent said he doesn't know at this point if any games were signed after October 24.

"Dr. Reitz told me he believed the games mentioned in his October 24 letter were just Southeastern Conference opponents," Kent said. But the board chairman added, "that couldn't be because Clemson is on the list. I have asked for a copy of all the football contracts, but haven't received them yet."

Kent said he had not heard much reaction one way or the other "except from the sports writers and people in Gainesville." He said he has a letter from only one legislator, Representative James N. (Gator) Beck of Palatka, and Beck was critical of the board.

Kent said he regretted the action of the university faculty senate protesting the board's interference because "I fear this will build up bad feeling and there shouldn't be emnity between FSU and Florida.

"There is bound to be a diversity of opinion on whether they should play or not and someone had to decide it. The law says the board of control is the one to do it and the board decided unanimously they should play."

Bob Woodruff and Howard Danford, UF and FSU athletic directors, respectively, issued a joint announcement on the 1958 contest.

Woodruff and Danford also stated that, in compliance with a recent directive of the Board of Control, the Gators and Seminoles also would play at Florida Field in 1956 or 1957, provided opponents of both schools agree to release the UF and FSU from one game already contracted to play in either of those seasons.

The Board of Control on November 18 ordered the two state institutions to open athletic relations in football during the 1956 season.

At that time, Board of Control chairman Fred Kent of Jacksonville told Dr. J Wayne Reitz of Florida and Dr. Doak S Campbell of FSU, president, of the two schools, to inform their athletic directors "to play the game in 1956 or get new athletic directors."

Today's announcement, however, stated that "if no game can be arranged in 1956 or 1957, then the second game of this arrangement will be scheduled in 1959."

Terms of the 1956 or 1957 game will be a $20,000 flat guarantee. Terms for the 1958 game will be on a 50-50 option of the net gate receipts.

It was not immediately known whether the tentative arrangement for a 1956 game would satisfy members of the Board of Control.

"Until I see the agreement and discuss it with other members of the board I'd rather not comment," Board Chairman Fred Kent said at Jacksonville.

If the series does not start until 1958, the terms will be the same, Woodruff and Danford stated. The 1958 game will be on a $20,000 flat guarantee and the 1959 game on a 50-50 split of net gate receipts.

The Woodruff-Danford statement also said, "It is agreed that arrangements for future games with respect to location and other conditions will be determined on a basis of mutual recognition of interests.

"It is further agreed by the directors of athletics of both institutions that we shall do everything in our power to conduct all our athletic competition in such a manner as to result in the further development of friendly and cordial relationships among our players, students, alumni and the general public."

The two athletic directors also emphasized that every effort is being made to schedule a game in 1956 or 1957.

To reach the two game agreement FSU modified its demands that the teams play home and home series and both schools compromised on financial arrangements.

Florida went beyond previous offers in granting FSU the choice of a flat $20,000 or a 50-50 split of net gate receipts on the second game of the series.

On November 23, Dr. Reitz revealed that Florida had made five offers to FSU from January to June of this year in regards to a football game between the UF and FSU.

Dr. Reitz said then that the Tallahassee school's insistence on playing on a home and home arrangement and demanding strictly equal financial footing were the stumbling blocks to an agreement.

The $20,000 flat guarantee for the first game of the series, whether it starts in 1956, 1957 or 1958, is the offer Florida made last June 4.

Both of the first two games will be played at Florida Field. Site of future games will be worked out between the two schools.

The schools already have worked out schedule arrangements in many minor sports. First officially scheduled event involving the two schools will take place on February 17, at Tallahassee when Florida and FSU swim teams meet.

Competition also has been arranged in track, tennis and golf. It is expected that basketball, baseball and other minor sports meetings will be arranged and announced in the near future.

The Board of Control is scheduled to meet here Thursday and Friday, December 8-9. It is believed that the board will formally approve the agreement revealed today by the two schools.

The November 22, 1958 date here precedes the Gators annual windup game with the University of Miami. The UF and Hurricanes are scheduled at Florida Field on November 29, 1958.

If the 1958 game with FSU turns out to be the initial contest between the schools, it is probable that Florida's single and two game attendance records will be broken in that eight day period.

Although Florida had been playing football since 1906, Florida State University has been represented on the gridiron only since 1948. The school became coeducational in 1947. The past season was FSU's first as an accredited "major" team in NCAA rankings.

Both Florida and FSU will be given 42.5 per cent of the money with the remaining 15 per cent going to Florida A&M.

Reason given for the shift in racing funds money, used chiefly for athletic scholarships, is to give FSU needed funds as it has operated at a deficit, board member Joe K. Hays of Winter Haven, said.

Previously, Florida got 56 percent, FSU 36 per cent and A&M 8 per cent. A proposal was advanced that Florida get 50 per cent, FSU 33.30 per cent and A&M 12.18 per cent with the remaining 4.52 per cent held in reserve. This was discarded in favor of the even split.

In further connection with the shift of racing funds, Hays called FSU a "rising star" in football. The former member of the racing commision said the UF athletic department has a surplus which could be used for scholarships. He called FSU's need for scholarship money greater.

Florida and FSU are expected to get about $126,000 in funds and A&M about $44,000 under the new setup. Last year the UF got $184,028, FSU $136,402 and A&M $47,626.

Florida will receive about $20,000 less this year but the entire amount available for board distribution is down about $50,000 this year because tracks closed on a weekday rather than a weekend this year.

Florida President Dr. J. Wayne Reitz said the change in the fund split would bring some problems in the internal operations of the UF Athletic Department. He said his plan to release some $60,000 in athletic department salaries from the general fund to the Athletic Association budget for more flexibility in adding key positions might have to be revamped.

Naturally, as everyone knew it would be, the game was a sellout.

UF and FSU have met three times so far, the Gators winning all three games, but all three have been close, hard-fought and interesting. All three games have been played in Gainesville.

There has been considerable sentiment on the part of the FSU people to have one of the Florida games in Tallahassee once in a while. This is understandable on at least two counts - the so-called "home field advantage," plus the fact that Seminole rooters may get to sit somewhere other than behind the goal posts, as they do at Gainesville.

One drawback exists, however, Campbell Stadium in Tallahassee will hold only about half as many persons as want to see the game each year. By squeezing together, maybe 25,000 fans could get into the FSU plant. As a result, the game is not played in Tallahassee, since both schools would take a whopping pay cut.

A solution may be in sight, however.

Vaughn Mancha, the ex-Alabama All-American who now is the athletic director at FSU, arrived in the city yesterday and dropped by to say hello. That wasn't all he said, however.

"Our contracts with Florida have been signed through the 1963 game," he informed. "All of the games will be in Gainesville.

"The '64 game, however, is supposed to be our game. In '64 we start on a home-and-home basis and the first game is ours - to play where we want it to be played. I sort of lean toward the idea of playing it in the Gator Bowl and Ray Graves hasn't disagreed so far. One reason is that I doubt if we'll have adequate seating by then to take care of everyone who wants to see the game.

"If we have the say so, the game will either be played here in Jacksonville or it will be 'our' game in Gainesville. I think our crowd would favor coming here. By '64, they'll probably be tired of going to Gainesville. Also, we'd get better seats here for our followers.

"Actually, I think the game would draw a full house no matter where we played it, and as long as the Gator Bowl is the biggest stadium in this part of the state, we might be smart to play Florida here in Jacksonville."

Mancha didn't appear to be talking merely for any effect it might have on FSU's alumni in Duval County, who will be holding their second annual summer pow-wow today at the home of Hugh Donovan, 7252 San Pedro Road.

Mancha was asked if FSU still hoped to get into the Southeastern Conference.

"That's still our ambition," he nodded. "It would 'make' us financially, what with more attractive schedules, a share of bowl game money, etc.

"Geographically, we're in good shape and it looks more encouraging for us every year. You know, we're considered 'unofficial' members of the SEC: we get their notices, attend their meetings, and work closely with them in every respect. We also have agreements with various conference members and co-operate with them in every way."

When, if ever, Mancha was asked, did he see FSU becoming a member of the SEC?

"It wouldn't surprise me," he said, "If it happened in the next three years. So far as we can learn, the presidents of the different SEC schools look favorably upon Florida State, and that's going to be a big point in our favor. I'm looking to see it happen, as I said, within the next three years."

As a relative newcomer to big time football, Florida State has a lot of problems many other schools already have whipped. But, the Seminoles are coming along fast and it wouldn't be too surprising to see them reach every one of their objectives way ahead of schedule.

Florida has, at long last, signed a contract to play FSU in Tallahassee.

It is a four-year contract, starting with the expiration of the present one in '63, and Florida will play in Tallahassee in '64 and '66.

Apparently, it will be a home-and-home series between the Gators and Seminoles forevermore, starting with '64.

But there is one small catch.

It was stipulated in the contract that FSU must have 35,000 seats if the Gators play here in '64. Otherwise the '64 game will be played in Gainesville.

So FSU must start hammering in earnest.

Presently, Campbell Stadium seats just 25,000.

"We already have plans to enlarge the stadium to 35,000 seats," said Vaughn Mancha, athletic director of FSU, "You can be sure that some way, somehow we will come up with those seats."

Only recently FSU expanded Campbell Stadium to its present 25,000 capacity.

Mancha and Ray Graves, athletic director of Florida, made a joint announcement Tuesday that the four-year contract had been signed.

The series between the two state schools started in '58, with all games in Gainesville. FSU plays Florida again this fall in Gainesville (November 17) and in '63 (November 30).

Under the new contract, Florida will be in Tallahassee on November 31, 1964, FSU at Gainesville on November 27, 1965, Florida at Tallahassee October 8, 1966, and FSU at Gainesville November 25, 1967.

There was no announcement of contract terms.

But an unofficial source said FSU has agreed to give Florida a $50,000 guarantee, with an option of 50% of the net pay in Tallahassee.

Since the odds are in favor of Florida getting more than $50,000 under the 50% clause, it all amounts to the fact that the two will be playing on an even financial basis. FSU gets 50% of the net when it plays at Gainesville.

Apparently, the question of whether FSU shall use SEC transfers against Florida is still up in the air. The contract provision is the same as in the past and FSU has played at least one SEC transfer against Florida in the past.

Another bone of contention has been a freshmen football series between the two, which FSU seeks. There was no mention of this either, but the two are to be negotiating for a home-and-home freshmen series.

Dr. Gordon W. Blackwell, FSU president, had to answer only a few polite queries before board members accepted his plan for spending $550,000 from unallocated money the university has accumulated from research grants and fees.

The capacity will be raised from the present 24,000 to as much as the money will buy.

This is expected to be upward of 35,000 and probably close to 37,000.

Blackwell said the increasing size of the student body and plans for scheduling stronger opponents at home are principal reasons that more seats are needed.

The underlying reason, referred to obliquely, was that the Florida-FSU game was to stay in Gainesville until FSU had a big enough place to stage.

Blackwell expressed confidence that FSU will become a member of the Southeastern Conference next year. Georgia Tech recently withdrew from the Dixie Dozen, leaving it with 11 teams.

FSU advance ticket sales for this fall are $104,000 already - more than twice last year - Blackwell reported.

He said 75,303 paid $117,265 to attend FSU home games last fall. This year, Blackwell estimated attendance will be 117,000 and revenue $259,875 with the extra seats.

Attendance probably will be 17,000 for New Mexico, 25,000 for Kentucky, 17,000 for Southern Mississippi, 20,000 for North Carolina State and 38,000 for Florida, he said.

FSU vs UF in basketball

This probability was seen today with the announcement that tentative arrangement had been reached between the two schools for a basketball game on December 16 at a site to be selected.

The Florida-FSU tilt was listed on a 23 game Florida basketball schedule announced at Gainesville. The announcement said the game was tentative.

The two schools have never met in a regularly scheduled basketball, football or baseball game, but agitation for such competition developed to considerable proportions during the past year and even was made the subject of a legislative bill, which was defeated.

The inter-institutional committee of the two schools agreed several weeks ago that the athletic directors of the universities get together and work out schedules which would go into effect as soon as possible.

No announcement has been made about progress of negotiations on football.

Florida and FSU have met twice in basketball in the Gator Bowl tournament in Jacksonville. Florida won both the games by coming from behind. They have also met in track meets.

In Gainesville, Florida coach and athletic director Woodruff said the basketball game "was under consideration by officials of the two state institutions.

"There will be joint announcements by Florida and FSU if the schools reach an agreement and the game is set on this date," he said.

Florida State is not on the Gators' 1968-69 basketball schedule which will be announced Saturday.

Florida cited the pressures of an 18-game Southeastern Conference schedule, a desire for intersectional scheduling and several "incidents" in the contests between the bitter cross-state rivals.

One of the "incidents" in the stormy series came last year at Tallahassee when Florida player Richard Vasquez was hit in the face after driving in for a layup during the final five seconds of a 95-87 Gator victory.

A Florida official later was quoted as saying:

"Last year one of the coaches was hit by an object thrown from the stands. That didn't sit well. This year it was worse. This is a natural rivalry but the feelings of football season seem to carry into basketball. It's not a rivalry, it's a 'hate.'"

The next possible meeting between the schools will be December 6-7, 1968. Florida, FSU, Miami and Jacksonville are participating in a state tournament scheduled for Jacksonville's Coliseum.

They could meet again, one year after that, at the same site in the December 1969 Gator Bowl Tournament.

In Tallahasssee, FSU Athletic Director Vaughn Mancha said Friday he "doesn't like it one bit" and indicated he might take his case to the Board of Regents, governing body for the state's system of higher education.

Threatened action by the Board of Control, predecessor to the Board of Regents, resulted in football scheduling on a regular basis. The football series began in 1958.

Florida State Coach Hugh Durham, reached in Tallahassee, also was obviously upset about the decision to end the series which began in 1952.

"You know the reasons we've been given," Durham said.

"I can't complain about that. Florida worries about its program and we worry about our program. It is the prergative of any school to play the teams it wishes to play. However, I don't feel this is good for basketball in the State of Florida.

"There is only one thing about this which really upsets me. I didn't learn we weren't going to be on Florida's schedule until early in the week.

"During the NCAA convention we talked about it and I was told we'd talk about it later, after the SEC meetings. As a result, we held two dates open for Florida which we'll now have to fill."

Florida Athletic Director Ray Graves indicated in Gainesville that the series might be resumed after a cooling-off period and after both schools have larger gymnasiums in which spectators are farther from the playing floor.

"We also want to play a more representative schedule," Florida basketball Coach Tommy Bartlett said.

"We must play 18 games in our conference. We play in the Gator Bowl and in that state tournament this coming season, which leaves us with only four outside games."

The "outside" games are against Wisconsin, West Virginia, Bucknell and Furman.

"It just doesn't pay to play teams within your own state if you're trying to get outside recognition," Bartlett said.

"Kentucky doesn't play Louisville or some of the other good basketball teams within its own state. It would just be a matter of knocking each other off."

Mancha said reasons given him by Graves for calling off the series "were trivial."

He said the Florida athletic director "played up the angle of conduct, but I think we have been living by the rules pretty well. We use Southeastern Conference rules and have followed them to the letter."

Mancha said he didn't learn of the decision until he checked with the SEC office in Birmingham and found out that Florida already had completed its schedule.

"This game," Mancha concluded, "is bigger than just Vaughn Mancha and Ray Graves. I think the Board of Regents should have something to say about it."

Graves said he doesn't know of any legislation requiring Florida and Florida State to play in all sports and said the Board of Regents has more pressing problems than the schools' basketball schedules."

Florida has won 18 of the 22 games in the series.

Editors note: Florida replaced Florida State with the powerhouses Bucknell and Furman on their 1968-69 schedule and didn't resume the rivalry with FSU until 1978-79 season.

From the 1968-69 season to the 1977-78 season the records of the two schools are as follows:

        Florida                     FSU
68-69    18- 9 1st round NIT       18- 8
69-70     9-17                     23- 3
70-71    11-15                     17- 9
71-72    10-15                     27- 6 Lost to UCLA in the NCAA Championship
72-73    11-15                     18- 8
73-74    15-11                     18- 8
74-75    12-16                     18- 8
75-76    12-14                     21- 6
76-77    17- 9                     16-11
77-78    15-12                     23- 6 1st round NCAA
Totals  130-133                   199-73
sparkling 49.43 winning %          73.16 %

Sports Editor Bill McGrotha said the Board of Controls, now known as the Board of Regents, agreed at a conference held in February 1955 that the two schools "will enter competition in all sports."

"Athletic relations are to be initiated and maintained upon terms to which the institutions mutually agree," the rule said.

Hendrix Chandler, corporate secretary for the regents, confirmed that the rule had been approved, but he said the board had no plans to review the basketball controversy in light of it.

"We have had no specific requests from either institution to any rule," he said.

Chandler added that the regulation might not be binding anyway because it referred to the University of Florida and Florida State starting competition in all sports, which they did as directed.

But McGrotha said the regulation would be binding because FSU officials never agreed - nor were they ever consulted - about the decision to discontinue basketball games with the University of Florida.

The Florida coaches filled the Gators' 26-game basketball schedule with other contests and shut out FSU without discussing it or advising the Seminoles they were doing it. FSU coaches learned of the action through the Southeastern Conference commissioner's office.

McGrotha said none of the regents were in office in 1955 and probably no one knew of the existence of the regulation.

He said: "Florida has two conceivable outs in its arbitrary severence of the basketball series: (1) It can argue that terms were not mutually agreeable, (2) It can hope for continued lack of action by the Board of Regents on a violation of board policy.

"The Board of Regents should enforce its policy or change it," McGrotha continued. "If it does not enforce or change this policy, it should not expect universities to consider any of its actions binding."

"Certainly, we'll have to take a look at the situation," Mautz told Joe Halberstein, sports editor of the Gainesville Sun in an interview from Patrick Air Force Base, where he is on duty as a brigadier general.

Mautz said disclosure by Bill McGrotha, sports editor of the Tallahassee Democrat, Wednesday that Board of Regent rules bound the two state universities to competition in all sports comes as "completely news to me."

"I did not know there was such a policy in the minutes and I don't think anyone else did either," Mautz said. "That being the case, there are three things that we can do.

"One is to enforce it; another is throw it out and the third is make an exception to it in the present case."

Mautz, former vice president for student affairs at Florida, said, "My feeling is that Florida innocently took this action in breaking off relations with Florida State University in basketball. They certainly did not know about the policy."

As it stands now, Bartlett - Florida's coach - isn't even shaking hands with his Florida State counterpart. Handshakes are for friends. Bartlett and Durham obviously are not friends.

"I can't be two-faced about it," claimed Bartlett. "I have my feelings about the man and his program. I can't feel this way inside and still be buddy-buddy for the public."

The Gator roundball coach talked calmly, but strongly about the feud between the two state schools. Like the rest of the U of F staff and about two dozen newspaper people, the stocky Bartlett was enjoying a weekend at Ray Graves' annual preseason party in the sun.

"Durham has said things about me that no coach should say about another," said Tommy. "It's unethical. I could say plenty that would get FSU into hot water, but I'm not. That is no way to do."

Florida State is on some sort of NCAA probation for recruiting practices, but it wasn't Bartlett who lifted the covers. Both sides made that plain.

"I get tired of reading what Durham thinks we should do at Florida...or what we 'have' to do," Bartlett continued. "It would be okay with me if we never played FSU again."

Although Bartlett had wiped away his regular season games with the Seminoles, the teams may meet at Jacksonville's Coliseum in a December event dreamed up by Jacksonville University's Joe Williams.

The Gators play the Dolphins in one first round game with Miami versus FSU in the other. If both win - or lose - it will be Florida-Florida State on the second night, something Bartlett can do without.

"My feelings are that this will end what was originally the fine idea for a tournament," Bartlett said. "Things have happened since we made the agreement. With FSU in, we're out from now on."

Durham may get another crack at the Gators in the 1969 Gator Bowl tournament. That too has Bartlett's blood boiling.

"Florida State signed for the Gator Bowl before we broke off basketball relations," said the Florida coach.

"The Gator Bowl people had no way of knowing, but I'll say one thing - if the Gator Bowl wants Florida to continue as the host team for the tournament, I don't care to see FSU back in the future. I'm not trying to run the Gator Bowl's business, but those are my personal feelings."

It's a good bet that the Gator Bowl will string along with the Gators since Florida is a much stronger draw than Florida State in Jacksonville. Bartlett realizes his team's value to the GB event as well as anyone.

"We lost in the first round last December and only 5,000 people showed up for the finals," he said. "I was told there were 8,000 tickets sold. That means 3,000 Florida fans didn't want to come simply because we were out of it."

Bartlett and Durham were at a coaching clinic at Stetson University not long ago. Tommy continually snubbed Hugh. Durham finally broke the ice, saying "Take it easy, Tommy. Okay?"

Bartlett said, "Okay, coach."

End of dialogue. No handshakes.

It was Bartlett who gave Miami the boot from his schedule two seasons ago when Bruce Hale coached at Coral Gables. Tommy is willing to talk possibilities with the Hurricanes' new coach, Ron Godfrey, but hasn't had a feeler.

"I wouldn't be against some sort of tournament but not the home-and-home deal like what we had before," said Bartlett. "I need the space on my schedule with 18 mandatory conference games. If it's clogged up, I can't get intersectional games that fans seem to like. We have Houston coming to Gainesville soon and Northwestern too."

The idea is for an intrastate event of some kind. But how do you do it and still leave out Florida State?

"I wouldn't have anything against having a tournament with Florida, Miami, Jacksonville and Florida A&M," said Bartlett.

"I'd like to work out something between us and Jacksonville since I like Joe Williams so much. He's a fine, honest coach who works his head off for the improvement of basketball in our state. I would like to find a spot for JU in our plan whenever possible."

As for FSU, Bartlett's current answer is, "Forget it."

Editor's note: Speaking of the 1968 four team tourament in Jacksonville - Bartlett must have really not wanted to play FSU. After FSU beat Miami in the first game, 111-84, Florida must have lost to Jacksonville on purpose in the second game, 67-64, so the Bartlett wouldn't have to coach against Durham!

The storm began at a recent gathering in Apollo Beach when Florida Coach Tommy Bartlett accused Durham of being unethical in the latter's conversations about Bartlett.

That - again - fired up touchy partisans of the two schools. But, while they were arguing, Durham was on vacation in Louisville, Ky., where he took the whole thing calmly.

"Well," Durham said, "it seems fairly obvious Coach Bartlett doesn't care for me and that certainly is his prerogative.

"On the other hand, I think Tommy is a fine coach and has done an excellent job at Florida. Many times I have complimented him publicly in just that manner.

"Our jobs, as I see it, is to promote our respective basketball programs to the best of our ability. I feel these promotions will bring on differences, but these differences should be dealt with on a professional level and we should not deal in individual personalities.

"Coach Bartlett can make any statement he feels most beneficial to his program. I am on vacation and have not had time to study his complete statement."

Just a month ago both coaches appeared at a basketball clinic at Stetson and the Florida coach snubbed Durham, but the Seminoles mentor shrugged it off. "I thought things were cordial enough between us. I said something like 'Hang in there, Tommy,' and he mumbled something and walked away. I wasn't invited to a party at his house that night, but I'm no party man anyhow...besides, I probably couldn't have made it."

The 7-1 decision by the board in Tampa to stop its 13-year policy of forcing the two schools to face each other in all major athletic fields each year left the football series healthy and kicking.

But it apparently will put a crimp in year-to-year competition between the two rivals in basketball, baseball, swimming, golf and other sports.

Florida Athletic Director and Head Football Coach Ray Graves said in Gainesville that he was not unhappy with the decision.

The old practice of making the two schools compete was instigated by the Board of Control on the premise that Florida State was a young struggler in athletics and needed competition with cross-state Florida to gain "status" in the world of athletics.

But several regents said Friday - and Graves agreed - that the rivalry was no longer necessary for Florida State's sake.

"I think this shows a confidence among the regents that the athletic directors of our two schools can handle their own problems," said Graves.

"Playing FSU in all athletic events is still our program," said Graves, "but when it does not look like it is the best interests of the University of Florida or both schools to compete in some intercollegiate sports, then we would have to make that decision."

Graves, who has built one of the best all-around college athletic programs in the land, earlier this year broke off the hotly-fought basketball series between the Gators and Seminoles for at least two years.

Graves and Florida Basketball Coach Tommy Bartlett said at the time that the action was taken because of "incidents" at games and a desire by Florida to take its four free games off the schedule and go out of state to get more recognition.

"We plan, in time, to resume the basketball series - perhaps not permanently, but periodically," said Graves. "The recent incidents we have had in the basketball games have been a challenge to the students and fans to know that they have a responsibility to protect the series."

Graves did say that "95 to 98 percent of our football recruiting is done in Florida and the games with FSU help both schools."

"But," he quickly added, "both of us have achieved prominence in swimming, golf, baseball, track and other sports and really do not depend on each other to gain recognition although the rivalry is certainly healthy if it doesn't get out of hand in some areas."

Florida State's athletic director hoped it was a friendly hoax. He kept saying, "You're kidding me...aren't you?"

Florida's Board of Regents had pulled back a 1955 order that compelled FSU and bitter rival Florida to meet in all sports. The door was open for at least a partial breakoff in relations.

"If this is true it is a great disappointment for us at FSU," Mancha said. "I personally believe the schools should meet in all phases of athletics...I believe that's a helthy situation...I think that's what most fans desire."

The burly former Alabama All-American was in town to help promote FSU's Nov. 29 date here against Houston in the Gator Bowl. A traveling companion was Richard Perry of Tallahassee, vice chairman of the regents.

"Let me see what Perry knows," Mancha said. "He's in a meeting, too." Both confabs were in the Robert Meyer Hotel.

The Seminole AD was back in a flash.

"Perry's tied up, but he did say he wasn't aware that the matter was even on the agenda for today's regents meeting. He wants to know what's up as much as I do."

Mancha's counterpart at Florida, Ray Graves, said the decision would have no bearing on the Gator-FSU football series.

"That's true...because we have contracts for about 10 years," Mancha said. "I'm worried about other sports right now."

Basketball may have been a key issure in the regents' move. Florida broke off relations with FSU starting in the 1968-69 season. UF Coach Tommy Bartlett has made it clear he has no plans to schedule Florida State in the near future.

Bartlett citied problems bordering on near riots at FSU-Florida cage battles as one of his reasons. Both schools have now booked a full schedule for two years.

There is a chance the two rivals may square off in the Jacksonville Coliseum in early December. A four-team tournament sponsored by Jacksonville University will feature FSU, Florida, JU and Miami. Florida and FSU don't play in the opening round but wins - or loses - by both would cause a pairing on the event's second night.

FSU Basketball Coach Hugh Durham said in Tallahassee that he was "surprised the matter came up." He said he figured it would have been considered at a meeting later this month, likely during the weekend of the Florida-FSU football clash Sept. 28 in Doak Campbell Stadium.

"We would like to play Florida again," said Durham, "but it won't make or break our basketball program."

Florida holds a 7-2-1 advantage in the grid series started in 1958. The old Board of Control forced the teams to meet with their original order, something the UF athletic director of that period, Bob Woodruff, had fought.

"Maybe one game next year," said UF Athletic Director Ray Graves in an optimistic tone Friday night, "and maybe twice the next year.

"We're having some problems finding the dates," he added, "but I'm sure we can work something out."

Graves and FSU Athletic Director Clay Stapleton, who could not be reached for comments Friday night, have been "talking on the subject" as has UF Coach Tommy Bartlett and FSU's Hugh Durham in an effort to restore the series.

The two state universities have not played a regular series game since the 1967-68 fight-marred season, after which Florida dropped the Seminoles, kicking off an explosion of tempers.

Coach Bartlett said he also was interested in the possibility that his Gators could meet Jacksonville University in the Gator Bowl tournament next year. Both teams are scheduled for the holiday tournament in the Coliseum.

Coach Durham said he would "welcome" the return of the UF-FSU series.

"It's good for basketball in Florida," he said. "I think the Jacksonville-Florida State series has done quite a bit to create interest in the sport in the state.

Durham said the idea of a tournament has been one of the possibilities being kicked around in an effort to work out the scheduling.

"South Florida's program is starting to move out," he said. "I think a tournament with four state teams is a good idea.

"What I'd really like to see, however," added the Seminole coach, "is a state college basketball game televised state-wide every week, like they do in North Carolina."

Meanwhile, Durham said he and Bartlett had been on the phone "trying to work out some type of competition and were moving toward it."

Bartlett said his conversations with Durham had been "unofficial" with "nothing definite, but we have been feeling around trying to figure out the best way to go about the scheduling.

"We talked about whether it would be best to play one game on a neutral court, or one game at our place one year and one game at Tallahassee the next year or play a home-and-home."

Bartlett, in recounting the breakup, said it had been an unfortunate situation "that got out of hand, and a lot of things were said that shouldn't have been said.

"I think if you go back to our original statement," Bartlett said, "you'll find that we said 'maybe we'd reschedule them (FSU) in a year or two after things cooled down.'

"Then some of the press got into it," he continued, "and the first thing you knew it had gotten into a name calling contest.

"Then things like 'we'd never play them again' got into the press, and that wasn't necessarily true.

"And a lot of things you say come back to haunt you."

Bartlett said the Gators were still "committed to an intersectional schedule", but they were also interested in rescheduling FSU as soon as possible and pointed to the Gator Bowl as a way of working Jacksonville back onto the slate.

Bartlett again pointed out the fact that Florida was committed to an 18-game Southeastern Conference schedule and two in the Gator Bowl, which leaves the Gators with only six games in which to schedule intersectional opponents.

The 1985-86 season will be the first since 1977-78 that the Gators and Dolphins have not met. JU and Florida have just finished a two-year contract calling for one game per season after meeting the previous five years in tournaments.

Florida coach Norm Sloan said the decision to drop JU and cut back on FSU was made in part because the Gators were snubbed by the NCAA Tournament on the basis of not playing a strong enough intersectional schedule.

"That had a lot to do with it," Sloan said yesterday. "It's me. I made the decision, but everyone I talked to (in the Florida athletic department) agreed."

"We would like to play them," JU coach Bob Wenzel said. "They just don't want to play us."

Sloan said he needed to drop two games to fit in new contracts with Miami and Maryland. The Gators will play two games next season against Miami's revived team and one game against Maryland.

Florida's remaining non-Southeastern Conference games are scheduled with Stetson, South Florida and Central Florida (all existing contracts), plus two games at a tournament hosted by Nevada-Las Vegas.

Florida and JU have played 18 times since their first meeting in 1960, the Gators winning 14 times, including the past five games. This past season's game at Florida's O'Connell Center drew a crowd of 8,115, the largest Florida-JU crowd since the Dolphins beat the Gators 61-55 to win the 1979 Gator Bowl Tournament in front of 8,972 at the Coliseum.

Sloan said attendance didn't have much influence in the decision.

"Although if it had been the kind of game that drew 10,000 or close to 12,000, certainly we would have kept it," he said.

Sloan and Florida State coach Joe Williams have agreed to play one game a year at the site of the schools' football game. Under those conditions, Florida and FSU attracted 13,188 last season. It was the largest crowd to see a college basketball game in the state.

Florida and FSU renewed their series in 1981 after a 13-year hiatus. The Gators and Seminoles had met in the 1978 and 1980 Gator Bowl Tournaments.